comma question

[horizon]

He reports having constant unremitting pain in his left ring finger.

or

He reports having constant, unremitting pain in his left ring finger.


I went with the comma but wasn't sure why

Thanks

[olywakim]

horizon,

Standard grammar rules require a comma between adjectives if each modifies the noun (can you put an "and" between them and maintain the meaning).

No comma is necessary if the first adj. in the series modifies both the adjective that follows it and the noun.

This case is a little odd since it's rather redundant but pain can be constant and it can be unremitting. I'd have used the comma as well. Constant unremitting pain (no comma) is even MORE redundant.

[olywakim]

That answer was rather inadequate. I am delving into this further. Back with more later.

Edited to add: Still searching, but another hint I ran across was to try switching the adjectives around and seeing if it still made sense "big blue eyes" is okay but "blue big eyes" is silly so no comma there! That would lend support to your use of the comma and would explain why "long, long summer" would get one too. (That was an easy redundant one I thought of that the 'and' rule did not seem to help with.) ;D

[olywakim]

Here is where I got the information on reversing the adjective order to help with comma placement.

www.cloudnet.com/~edrbsass/edrules.htm

This site gives a pretty comprehensive, if slightly mind-numbing, explanation of the hierarchy involved in adjectives. The hierarchy helps in determining their order.

www.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/

Had to laugh when I saw this comment on the site mentioned above, "It would be folly, of course, to run more than two or three (at the most) adjectives together." Folly certainly doesn't stop anyone I transcribe for!

Disclaimer: I should mention that these sites do contain some pretty useful information about grammar in general, but they are not medical style guides, so do not be surprised to find some different points of view.

So far my greatest MT-related grammar gold mine is at MT desk.

www.mtchat.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?Cat=

But you definitely have to go digging for your answers since it is a message forum.

[Admin]

<<So far my greatest MT-related grammar gold mine is at MT desk>>

I agree! Ellen Drake is a national treasure. If I can't find an explanation that makes sense elsewhere, I always run and post to Ellen on that board.

[Rennie]

This is always a tough one for everyone, including me!

To help explain this, I like to tell this little story about the itsy bitsy teeny weeny yellow polka dot bikini:

Roomie and I were watching TV one evening, and a commercial came on that was playing that song. You might have seen this commercial. It showed a picture of a bikini that was yellow with pink polka dots. Roomie said, "Hey! That bikini doesn't have yellow polka dots!" I thought for a minute and said, "Yes, so the song must be saying, 'yellow COMMA polka dot bikini.'"

The bikini was yellow.
The bikini had polka dots.

Two separate items there. Therefore, a comma would be in order.

Now, if the bikini had had yellow polka dots, there would be no comma because "yellow" would be building on "polka dot." A yellow polka dot bikini is different than a yellow, polka dot bikini. Make punctuation do what it's intended to do - clarify meaning! I know, I know, it's easier said than done sometimes, isn't it?!

Here is another link that might help:

englishplus.com/grammar/00000072.htm

[Admin]

That's what I call a great answer, Rennie, a lovely mix of humor and solid info presented in way that will stick in people's minds.